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  Rank: Marshal Groups: Tenacity Council
Joined: 9/20/2007 Posts: 764 Points: 197 Location: Manchester, Uk
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For the slow and the ignorant; http://www.ensidia.com/muqq/blog/4078/Sirque wrote:I love bigpenis... Premortem wrote:Draex raised a valid point
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  Rank: Administrator Groups: Forum Admin, Tenacity Council Joined: 12/29/2004 Posts: 4,911 Points: 6,739 Location: United Kingdom
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Not that I terribly love Ensidia or anything, but having heard about the bug and such...banning for something so esoteric on the first day without warning and without any proper testing phase seems a bit bizzare.
While I was skeptical at first, I did check and it does seem that they are quite correct that Engineering Rogues use Saronite Bombs normally in their rotation due to the lack of a cast timer and being one of the few Engineering advantages. So why they would ban for 'exploiting' this seems silly.
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  Rank: Grand Marshal Groups: Forum Member
Joined: 2/18/2007 Posts: 1,349 Points: 3,229 Location: Manchester (UK)
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Jayde they had done the fight on 10man, they knew that the Valkyr drop players "off" the edge of the area... Suddenly whilst doing 25man they find the broken edges respawning and no-one can now die during this phase.. so basically they can ignore the Valkyr giving them 1 massive burn phase only  They exploited theirself through most content and its finally caught up with them...
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Rank: Administrator Groups: Forum Admin, Tenacity Council Joined: 12/29/2004 Posts: 4,911 Points: 6,739 Location: United Kingdom
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I find it very implausible that they connected the two, though. I mean... it's a new encounter, and without really heavily looking into tons of data I'm not sure how they could have possibly known that it was due to their Rogues using bombs or whatever. They only did, what.. like 11 attempts? Have to say, half the fights anyone does they don't fully understand by only 11 attempts. My guess is that they assumed the encounter was bugged like every other new encounter nowadays is... apparently the bug didn't even happen all the time (they mentioned about 50%) so I'm really not sure how much of a difference it makes. Like I said, not a massive Ensidia fan but this specific case sounds quite BS.
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Rank: Grand Marshal Groups: Forum Member
Joined: 2/18/2007 Posts: 1,349 Points: 3,229 Location: Manchester (UK)
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Jayde wrote:I find it very implausible that they connected the two, though. I mean... it's a new encounter, and without really heavily looking into tons of data I'm not sure how they could have possibly known that it was due to their Rogues using bombs or whatever. They only did, what.. like 11 attempts? Have to say, half the fights anyone does they don't fully understand by only 11 attempts. My guess is that they assumed the encounter was bugged like every other new encounter nowadays is... apparently the bug didn't even happen all the time (they mentioned about 50%) so I'm really not sure how much of a difference it makes. Like I said, not a massive Ensidia fan but this specific case sounds quite BS. Ensidia are pretty well known as bug abusers (Especially nihilum) Twins/Cthun/Vashj/Hodir to name 4 bosses they got "world firsts" for that turned out to be "clever use of game mechanics" They cried blue murder when Exodus beat them to Yogg +0 and cried when they lost out on annub hc (whining about aoe paladin stuns?) Funnily enough it was ensidia who found those bugs and because they didn't have the #1 kill they sent them to blizzard... They knew what they are doing and got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
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 Rank: Lieutenant Commander Groups: Tenacity Member
Joined: 12/18/2008 Posts: 543 Points: 865 Location: Sweden
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Have to side with Jayde here.. I guess this also means that they cannot compete for the hard modes next week? Since their achievements and gear were revoked. The hard modes would continue to be locked for them untill they clear it again next week. Good game on letting the only encounter that got tested by blizzard screw stuff up . yogg -0 was a pure exploit. That had nothing to do with bugs or anything :S
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Rank: Grand Marshal Groups: Forum Member
Joined: 2/18/2007 Posts: 1,349 Points: 3,229 Location: Manchester (UK)
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Nymphomania wrote:
yogg -0 was a pure exploit. That had nothing to do with bugs or anything :S
Clever use of ingame mechanics...... its identical.
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Rank: Lieutenant Commander Groups: Tenacity Member
Joined: 12/18/2008 Posts: 543 Points: 865 Location: Sweden
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It's not indentical. They (ensidia) did not know what was causing the bug.
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Rank: Grand Marshal Groups: Forum Member
Joined: 2/18/2007 Posts: 1,349 Points: 3,229 Location: Manchester (UK)
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Nymphomania wrote:It's not indentical. They (ensidia) did not know what was causing the bug.
You have to purposly throw the bombs where the platform once was to get it to respawn... thats not "by accident" they knew what they were doing 100% They tanked the lichking on the edge of the platform (which no other guild are doing because it means you have hardly any time to dps the valkyr)
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Rank: Administrator Groups: Forum Admin, Tenacity Council Joined: 12/29/2004 Posts: 4,911 Points: 6,739 Location: United Kingdom
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I've heard arguments that you aren't required to actually throw it on the platform and that is only a claim by random people who probably haven't done the fight. Most people had no ability to test it before they hotfixed it. Considering no guild actually tested this fight until it was available yesterday, I actually find it substantially hard to believe that Ensidia both identified the exact cause of the bug and then adjusted their strat perfectly to take advantage of it within a mere 11 attempts.
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Rank: Grand Marshal Groups: Tenacity Council
Joined: 1/22/2006 Posts: 2,506 Points: -3,769 Location: England
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It's very likely Blizzard were watching the actual kill and such, it wouldn't surprise me if stuff was said in raid chat that Ensidia hasn't disclosed. I doubt Blizzard has banned without good reason.
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Rank: Grand Marshal Groups: Forum Member
Joined: 2/18/2007 Posts: 1,349 Points: 3,229 Location: Manchester (UK)
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Jayde wrote:I've heard arguments that you aren't required to actually throw it on the platform and that is only a claim by random people who probably haven't done the fight. Most people had no ability to test it before they hotfixed it. Considering no guild actually tested this fight until it was available yesterday, I actually find it substantially hard to believe that Ensidia both identified the exact cause of the bug and then adjusted their strat perfectly to take advantage of it within a mere 11 attempts. Someone from the worlds #4 guild has done the fight and said their rogues were using saronite bombs and never got it to bug because they tanked him as close to center as possible.. so I think he knows what hes on about. Mikari is right - blizzard wont ever disclose any details and so ensidia can basically say their version of the events
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Rank: Administrator Groups: Forum Admin, Tenacity Council Joined: 12/29/2004 Posts: 4,911 Points: 6,739 Location: United Kingdom
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MMO-Champion shows like 5 weeks of logs of the very same Rogue using Saronite Bombs on every boss constantly. Honestly, it has to be possible to trigger it accidentally because there would be no way for them to discover it otherwise. (Do you honestly think the Rogue was thinking on the first try "oh hey, let me just randomly throw my Saronite Bombs around and see if something respawns!" ) Apparently siege damage like that doesn't even appear in the combat log, so how would you be expected to diagnose the issue?
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Rank: Lieutenant Commander Groups: Tenacity Member
Joined: 12/18/2008 Posts: 543 Points: 865 Location: Sweden
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Rank: Marshal Groups: Tenacity Guest
Joined: 10/19/2007 Posts: 759 Points: 1,846 Location: UK
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draex wrote:Jayde they had done the fight on 10man, they knew that the Valkyr drop players "off" the edge of the area... Suddenly whilst doing 25man they find the broken edges respawning and no-one can now die during this phase.. so basically they can ignore the Valkyr giving them 1 massive burn phase only They exploited theirself through most content and its finally caught up with them... ^ probably true And it's definitely true in regards to where you throw the bombs, this has been tested by chums. The fact he uses bombs is no real issue but the fact he throws them in a particular superhappy special place... That's something different, really
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Rank: Lieutenant Commander Groups: Tenacity Member
Joined: 12/18/2008 Posts: 543 Points: 865 Location: Sweden
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